Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 16th June 2022 via Microsoft Teams

Participating: John Loudon (Chair), John Howison (Vice-chair), Ian Williamson (Secretary), Gena Wylie (Treasurer), Peter Scott (Planning Lead), Bert Scott, Hamish Barrie, Kit Campbell, Michael Dick, Robert Bruce Percy Fekety, Jean Morley and Tom Wylie.

In attendance: Councillor Louise Young, Hannelore Gormley, Norah Carlin, David Foster Thomson, Nicola McCurdy, Gordon Dale


Sally Chalmers, David Campbell and Councillor Norman Work

Introductory Remarks

John Loudon noted that the meeting was the AGM following a busy year.  He recorded his thanks to Andrew Mather, former Chair of the Council, who had died in during the year as a result of which he had become the interim chair.  He also paid tribute to Margery Naylor, President of the Cramond Association, and Richard Adlington, chair of FRAW, who had also died during the year.

He also thanked the members of the Community Council for their support and input to the work of the Council.

Annual General Meeting 

John Loudon spoke briefly to the annual report he had prepared, and Gena Wylie introduced the independently examined annual accounts, highlighting the reduced expenditure during the year as a direct result of Covid.  She also commented that it remained to be seen what grant the City Council will provide for 2022-3.

John Loudon proposed, and Percy Fekety seconded adoption of the accounts and they were approved unanimously.  They would therefore be sent to the City Council with the annual report.

It was noted, with apologies to Michael Dick, that the extensive reply to Scottish Fire and Rescue Service Strategic Plan 2022-25 consultation should have been included with the annual report.

All the existing office bearers were re-appointed:

  • Chair – John Loudon
  • Treasurer – Gena Wylie
  • Vice-chair – John Howison
  • Secretary – Ian Williamson
  • Planning representative – Peter Scott
  • Engagement Officer – Sally Chalmers

Jean Morley intimated her intention to resign in the coming months.

Approval of May 2022 Minutes

The minutes were approved subject to the correction of two minor spelling mistakes in the last paragraph relating to Item 9: “point” instead of “pint” in line 10 and “the” instead of “rhe” in line 11.

Matters Arising


Police Report

Ian Williamson spoke to the latest Police report:

  • He had received apologies from Constable David Campbell which he interpreted as a signal that the Police would resume attending meetings when they are again held face to face
  • The Police are to continue “hi-vis” patrols in the area in an effort to minimise motoring offences (e.g., speeding on Queensferry Road) and reduce the increased use of “dirt bikes” and incidence of anti-social behaviour in the area
  • Overall, anti-social and youth misbehaviour had increased but crime had reduced

Hamish Barrie noted that in his opinion graffiti in the city was out of control.

Jacobs Report on Barnton Junction

John Howison provided an update on the future of the Barnton Junction.  In essence, when tested with macro modelling, the proposed new junction would have the same capacity as at present, but not enough to handle future traffic.  However, because of the complexity of movements within the junction, micro simulation modelling is needed to prove this and there is a need for further analysis.

Hamish Barrie suggested that changes to the junction should take account of the significant housing developments outside the city, for example at Craigiehall, South Queensferry and Winchburgh, all of which have been growing rapidly and are planned to grow further.  He also called for better integration of rail and bus services in these areas.  John Howison responded that there is already a “queue relocation system” on the A90 which can, if used properly by CEC, feed traffic slowly onto the Queensferry Road but will obviously create delays for residents of South Queensferry.

Peter Scott added that the new Transport and Environment (T&E) convener for the City Council, Scott Arthur, is a strong supporter of active travel and particularly walking and buses.  He is well aware of the state of the city’s roads, but there are budget problems and keen to promote (a) dialogue with adjacent councils; (b) to introduce a congestion charge; and (c) to resolve local problems.  Kevin Lang and Norman Work are members of the new T&E committee which is due to consider proposals for changes to roads in Cammo in the near future, possibly on an experimental basis.

Airport Update

Tom Wylie and John Howison gave an overview of how Edinburgh Airport is progressing its plans to change aircraft routing in order to reduce delays and where possible minimise the environmental impact of flights.  It is currently in Stage 2 of a seven-stage process:

  1. Define (the objective)
  2. Develop and assess ideas
  3. Consult
  4. Upgrade and submit proposals to the Civil Aviation Authority
  5. Decide
  6. Implement
  7. Review after 12 months

The current ideas relate to flights in three broad directions: north (7% of flights); west (43%) and south and east (50%) and the aim is to make it possible to increase the maximum number of flights (arrivals and departures) from the current 38 to 45 per hour.  This may involve as one of the many options a new route along the Forth but as nothing has been decided yet all the Community Council can do is to “wait and see”.

Brighouse Mediation Update

John Loudon and Kit Campbell proved an update on the Cramond Campus.  In essence:

  • The mediator, sportscotland and Council officials broadly support the proposals we have put forward and Council officials have drawn up a far from ambitious “road map” for their delivery, which suggests nothing will happen on the site for another three years. We have commented that this is unlikely to be acceptable to the local community and it should be possible to start site works within about a year.
  • However, AMA do not agree with our proposals. In May 2020 they sought the Council’s permission to spend up to two years trying to find tenants for commercial sports facilities on the site but have already had just over two years in which they have done nothing.  They have now re-engaged consultants to assess the potential for commercial sports facilities and try to find tenants willing to pay commercial rent.
  • On 29 June the community representatives will be meeting the mediator with AMA and their consultants to learn of their current proposals.
  • Given that there is a new Development Management Sub-committee, with a new chair, in due course we will also be seeking to make a presentation when it next reviews the situation.

Planning Update 

Peter Scott highlighted three current issues:

  • Lauriston Eco-farm: CBCC and DMSA had had a useful and friendly meeting with the farm promoters. The local community representatives were concerned about restrictions on public access and changes to the plan for the farm with no prior consultation.  The Farm was concerned to restrict access by people and dogs to a protected area for wading birds but had reacted well to the local community’s suggestions for more peripheral access.
  • Short term let controls: CEC has approved plans to introduce short term let controls throughout the city. The council maintains it has the staff resources to deal with them (it received over 140 applications for short term lets from the start of April to mid-May) and the potentially high number of appeals to the local review body, but it is unclear whether this is in fact the case.
  • Development plan: CEC has received approximately 700 representations in relation to City Plan 2030 which it has started to analyse. It will then decide how to respond to them, and their response will then be reviewed by a Reporter.  As a result, it will be at least two years before the final shape of the plan will be clear.

Secretary’s Update

Ian Williamson noted that he had approached the local councillors regarding the lack of consultation and engagement over changes to the 41 bus route.  The changes would benefit some local residents and disadvantage others, especially those living on Queensferry Road.  He went on to suggest that consideration should be given to taking up the new CEC Transport Convener on the offer he made at the recent Civic Forum meeting to engage with local communities in relation to transport plans.

Louise Young commented that the community are divided on the merits of the changes but agreed that consultation had been inadequate, including with the councillors.  However, the City Council could not force Lothian Buses to do anything, although they had agreed to ensure there would be bus shelters at shops along the route.

Celebrate Cramond

John Loudon stated that the Celebrate Cramond event had been more successful than he had expected and had allowed CBCC to gather a useful number of email addresses of local people.  Most of the questions from visitors had related to the 41 bus route or the Cramond Inn.

However, he was concerned over the potential for duplication of effort by CBCC and the Cramond Association over a number of issues.  Gena Wylie, however, noted that she had agreed with Richard Bright of the Association that the two organisations should work together over the future of the Cramond Inn.

Councillors’ Reports

Louise Young noted that:

  • Norman Work had reported back to CBCC on the travellers’ caravans at the foreshore car park
  • The outcome of the Brighouse mediation would be reported back to committee in due course
  • The Spaces for People consultation had identified that some of the proposals had been popular and others unpopular
  • The Council was considering changing the bus lane at the Cramond Brig and traffic routes at Cammo Walk
  • The Council had not yet appointed consultants to review the impact of a possible 30 mph speed limit on Queensferry Road from Barnton to Blackhall
  • The three Almond Ward Liberal Democrat councillors had agreed that there should be at least one of them at each CBCC meeting.

In relation to the foreshore car park, Ian Williamson suggested that it would be sensible for a “height barrier” to be installed.

Peter Scott sought information on Almond Ward councillors on CEC committees:

  • Louise Young – Education, Children and Families
  • Kevin Lang – Transport and Environment Policy and Sustainability
  • Lewis Younie – Finance and Resources Governance, Risk and Best Value
  • Norman Work – Transport and Environment

Any other Business

John Loudon noted that he had attended a meeting to discuss a proposal to replace Dowie’s Mill weir with a rock ramp.  There is a need for further detailed investigations before any action is progressed, but no finance is currently available.  The current plan is for delivery in 2023, but this is likely to be optimistic.  There are to be public consultation meetings at The Maltings on 21 June from 1300-1700 and on 28 June from 1600-2000.

He also suggested holding a public meeting in the autumn jointly with the Cramond Association to inform the local community of what is happening in relation to the Cramond Inn and the Brighouse site.

Date of Next Meeting

Thursday 15 September 2022 at 7 PM at the Millennium Hall