Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 16th March 2023 in

Cramond Kirk Millennium Hall

Present: John Loudon (Chair), Gena Wylie (Treasurer), Peter Scott (Planning Lead), Bert Scott, Percy Feketey, James Hancock, John Howison, Dianne Stein.

In Attendance: 9 Residents.             


Sally Chalmers (Vice-Chair), Ian Williamson (indisposed), Michael Dick, Robert Bruce, Hamish Barrie, Cllr Kevin Lang.    

Introductory Remarks

John Loudon welcomed attendees and noted that no Councillors were present. An Attendee requested short Written Reports from Councillors, whether or not they were at the CC Meeting in person. It was noted that some Notice Boards had been vandalised. He is personally looking after the one at the Barnton Shops. There would be a Committee Meeting in a few weeks’ time to discuss Committee Roles.

Approval of February 2023 Minute of Business Meeting   

The minutes was approved on a motion from Gena Wylie seconded by Dianne Stein.

Matters Arising


Police Report

The Chairman read out the received Report (circulated).   

Cramond Toilets

James Hancock reported (also see Secretary’s Report). He said that the toilets could be relocated, there were 2 possible sites, and a kiosk could also be considered, to provide a source of income. He would keep in touch with CEC Officials. The Chairman asked if this Meeting would be supportive of a relocation, and as there were no objections, he took that as a positive sign. Regarding the vehicle height-barrier at the Car Park entrance, Percy Feketey said he had expected a Progress Report from Lloyd Richardson, the Roads Rep at Almond NN Meetings, but it had not yet been received.  NN Meetings were at 3-monthly intervals, and it was important to maintain momentum on issues.

Afternote:  Lloyd Richardson has now reported that he wishes to extend consideration of the Height Barrier to cover other issues re the Cramond Car Park, however Percy Feketey has told him that the CC was in discussion with CEC Officials about improving the existing Toilets and other amenities in the vicinity and for the moment he should concentrate on the Height Barrier problem before the summer season.

Brighouse Update  

The Chairman reported (also see Secretary’s Report) that Penny Lochhead had continued engagement with interested parties, but time was running out and people who wished to express views should contact her right away. In accordance with the scheduled timetable a Public Meeting was required after 7 months, i.e., at end of June/ early July 2023. Peter Scott expressed his strong view that AMA’s Planning Consultant must attend at that Meeting as landscape design was part of the remit, and commercial development would be required to support sports/recreation provision. John Howison opined that the Financial Plan might not be available at that stage and the Chairman said that ‘market testing’ would also not be completed. He also mentioned that interviewed schoolchildren would like to see a café in the complex.

EV Charging Points Update 

There was a short discussion about the EV Charger apparatus being installed on the edge of the payment on the north side of Barnton Grove (2 standard 7kW chargers with 4 charging bays) a few metres from the junction with Whitehouse Road. The bays had been authorised through a TRO. Comments were made about charging- capacities, larger capacity Chargers could charge much faster than smaller-sizes. Clearly, a lot more information about such Chargers was required. It was noted a disabled bay had been removed and the Chair would make further enquiries.

Afternote:  Percy Feketey has inspected the site and feels that its location is probably the best in the area and does not detract from existing parking at and across from the Barnton shops. It remains to be seen if vandalism becomes a problem, but the two columns erected seem to be as robust as standard parking meter apparatus.

Planning Update  

Peter Scott reported (also see Secretary’s Report) on the lack of progress on the Community Participation Request on the Barnton Junction and environs studies- should we withdraw? We have asked for details of the costs of the Consultants’ Fees for each of the 3 relevant Studies. The Chairman asked for the Meeting’s views and after discussion it was agreed to strengthen our position with a further letter to David Sinclair and a meeting with the Convenor of the Transport and Environment Committee.

Secretary’s Report 

The Secretary not being present, reference should be made to the circulated Report.

Councillors’ Reports 

None were available (ref Chairman’s Intro Remarks).


Gena Wylie reported that there would be an Article in the June 2023 Grapevine on the results of a recent Meeting with Cramond Surgery. She felt that progress had been made.

The Chairman reported on Cramond Inn that he understood that 2 Staff had been recruited and the Cramond Inn would be re-opening, possibly by end-April 2023. He agreed that the Campaign for a Community Buyout should be maintained.

Liaison on Edinburgh Airport – see Report below from Dianne Stein.



Following attendance at several meetings including Edinburgh Airport Consultative Committee which I found most instructive, four main topics arose which impact on the local community.

  • Night Flights
  • Edinburgh Airspace Change Programme (ACP)
  • Noise Mitigation
  • Noise Monitors

Night Flights operate between 11:30pm -6am using circa 6 cargo companies. Aircraft used are older than passenger aircraft and with no daytime sound to absorb engine noise the sound is amplified. Data collected by EAL and detailed in Q4 report to EANAB shows that the highest volume of complaints come from Dalgety Bay, Ecclesmachin, Torphichen and Livingston.

Latest figures indicate that over a monthly period there are 121-night departures and 307 arrivals, of course there are fluctuations. It is possible that these figures will increase as more routes are allocated and passengers are prepared to arrive during the night. At present the night activity is conducted by cargo carriers. 

Edinburgh is a 24hour international airport with projected passenger figures of 14 million in the coming year so there is an inevitability of increased noise.

Edinburgh Airspace Change Programme. The stage 2 application has been approved by the CAA. 

The Stage 3 Consultation is in preparation. The new routes will take advantage of improved navigational capability which will allow better planning and increase the capacity of the airspace and the runway, particularly in peak times.

Noise Mitigation.   

The ACP may also minimise the environmental impact of flights in terms of the total number of people overflown as well as when and how often they are over flown while also cutting average CO2 emissions and noise issues. Edinburgh Airport has more noise issues than any comparable airport because ascent needs are higher due to incoming flights into Glasgow.

Noise Monitors. 

Currently there is a noise monitor in Cramond. The proposed monitor on the Dalmeny Estate is proving complex and the possibility of installing one at Craigiehall is being investigated by EAL. 

Date of Next Meeting

Thursday 20 April 2023