Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 18th May 2023 in

Cramond Kirk Millennium Hall

Present: John Loudon (Chair), Ian Williamson (Secretary), Gena Wylie (Treasurer), Dianne Stein, James Hancock, Bert Scott, Hamish Barrie and Percy Feketey.   

In Attendance: Councillor Lewis Younie, Norman Work and some 25 members of the community.


Councillor Louise Young, Councillor Kevin Lang, John Howison, Peter Scott and along with notifications from a number of other community attendees.

Introductory Remarks

John Loudon again welcomed those attending acknowledging that the prospect of changes to the delivery of bus services was proving to be an issue capturing the ongoing interest of the community.

Approval of April 2023 Minutes of Business Meeting   

Confirmation of the accuracy of the draft minute of the March meeting was given by Percy Feketey and was seconded by Michael Dick – John Loudon paying special thanks to the Secretary for what had been a particularly detailed minute; the minute was approved.            

Matters Arising

There were no matters arising from the April meeting that were not covered in the agenda.

Police Report

A report had not been provided prior to the meeting.

Presentation on Bus Services and the Cammo Meadows Hub

A lot had been learned since the April meeting. Notwithstanding the fact that much of the discussion had at that time been conducted on an assumption that there was still an opportunity to influence the change of bus services and routes that were being visited upon communities by Lothian Buses the plain fact was that these changes would come into effect on 28 May 2023. The info that had come to the attention of the CBCC immediately before the April meeting was in fact drawn from the Order as submitted by LB to the Traffic Commissioners. From that point in the process there was no opportunity for appeal (except by Emergency Services).

What had emerged in the interim supported the position and actions of Lothian Buses. The Primary legislation did not require bus operators to engage with stakeholders including elected Councillors and/or officials regarding service change. Nonetheless the manner in which the information had come into the public domain had, understandably, fuelled a perception of a public service operator functioning in a cavalier manner devoid of the common courtesies of timely communication. 

John Loudon reported on the presentation which he and Rod Alexander of the Davidson Mains and Silverknowes Association had given earlier in the day at the Transport and Environment Committee. It reflected the same themes as featured in the Motion put down by the Liberal Democrats Group to the Committee and Councillor Younie re-affirmed the commitment to secure better communication going forward).    

A number of comments were made:

  • There was some support for the new route of the 47/47B on the south bound route from Lothian Road.
  • The changes hastened the need for the introduction of a single ticketing system.
  • Access to the Edinburgh Gateway Interchange was becoming essential.
  • More park and rides on the A90 corridor were required.

These comments could be seen in the context of the many and varied comments seen by the CBCC via emails and Facebook which comments had been circulated in the papers for the meeting. Also, the CBCC paper on Community Needs and Desires which still had a function to perform in terms of informing the ongoing engagement with officials in the CEC in relation to a subsidised service linking Cammo Meadows southbound on the Maybury Road. 

Edinburgh Airport

John Loudon made a brief presentation on the Airport covering the meetings with the Edinburgh Airports Consultative Committee. The stage that had been reached in the critical review of flight paths and the engagement phase with Communities that would be reached in 2024.  Simulation exercises were being run with a view to determining the scope for avoiding built up areas, including Cramond.  It would be essential for communities affected to input into the engagement process.  The Airport did allow night flights albeit surcharges were being imposed on operators although it as clear that these were doing little to deter operators with a slow but incremental increase in scheduled commercial night flights.

The following points were made in the ensuing discussion:

That the Airport’s processes for reporting on noise and flight paths were difficult to navigate thereby putting people off trying. Dianne Stein undertook to raise this.

Aviation fuel and the fumes were a pollutant and there was a need for robust monitoring and action.


John Loudon talked about the forthcoming programme of engagement in progressing the route map. A Working Group meeting with PMR Leisure would take place early in June with a view to scoping out a public event to be held towards the end of the month/early July. The engagement and ideas gathering period of the process had been continuing apace and the public event provided the opportunity to showpiece some of the options emerging.  (This should be read in conjunction with the more detailed report paper from PMR Leisure which has issued with this minute.)  

A very strident and impassioned case was made by a resident to press AMA into the re-opening of the gate (currently padlocked) towards the south-east corner of the site.  It was non-compliant with the right to roam. And given the state of the site it was argued that AMA had lost the right to claim it remained a live development site.  John Loudon said that the original application remained extant and that, whatever the view may be as to the standard of what was being portrayed as maintenance it did, legally, represent maintenance. The route map was progressing, there was another access to the site that was open and the CBCC was not prepared to support a case being made to AMA. 

Secretary’s Report

Ian Williamson provided a brief resume of the rationale behind the introduction of the new legislation requirements to seek planning permission for a change of use to operate a Short Term Let.  Following discussion, it was agreed that each case would be considered on its merits by the CBCC but against a concern to be mindful of proliferation of STLs in a locality and noise/disruption to amenity. 

On the Cramond Surgery Ian Williamson reported that the engagement with the Surgery since the beginning of the year had been positive. At the meeting in January, they had shared a very real concern about the reports on the Patient Satisfaction Survey which had come out last Summer and which had shown Cramond languishing near the bottom of a league table of Edinburgh practices.  They were determined to take steps that would demonstrate a real commitment to continuous improvement. The CBCC were in no doubt as to the sincerity of these commitments. Many improvements were identified and are reported in the March Report.

The CBCC had agreed to expand its team and create a small working group that would inform ongoing engagement regarding further opportunities where changes may be beneficial. An approach had been made to the Surgery and a response remained outstanding. In the meantime, it had been confirmed that the two male GPs had both left the Surgery to pursue other career opportunities. That one has been the Surgery lead was a particular setback and the Primary Care Lead on the Integrated Care and Social Care Board had been asked to intervene and restart the engagement.  

Some sections of yellow lines put down on Cramond Glebe Road during Covid had recently been removed providing for on-street parking at some dangerous pinch points. The CEC were committed to looking to re-introduce them.            

Councillor’s Reports

On Buses Councillor Work confirmed support for the case for better communication regarding service change.

Date of Next Meeting

Thursday 15 June 2023