CRAMOND & BARNTON COMMUNITY COUNCIL

Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 16th May 2024 in

Cramond Kirk Millennium Hall

Present: John Loudon, Ian Williamson, Sally Chalmers, Peter Scott, Diane Stein, Percy Feketey, Bert Scott, Gena Wylie and Councillor Lang.

Apologies: Robert Bruce, Councillors Young, Younie and Work.

Approval of April 2024 Minutes

Approved by Percy Feketey and signed off by the Chair.

Introductory Remarks

The discussion began with a discharging of required formalities.

Cramond and Barnton Safety Action Group

(CBSAG) Cllr. Kevin Lang explained that Cramond and Barnton Safety Action Group had met for the 2nd time on the previous evening.  A note of that meeting had been circulated to members.

Each meeting of the CBSAG would focus on the outputs from 2 sub-groups leading on 2 key objectives as discussed at the first meeting.  While it was expected that from these would emerge some quick wins, there would also emerge other actions that would require more considered reflection by CEC officials. It was proposed that these would be aggregated into a list of actions that the new Community Council would take ownership of going forward. A number of concerns were expressed based on past experience where very detailed considered and researched proposals from the CBCC to CEC officials had, one way or another, been buried. 

It was, however, argued that the genesis for this new list was such that a groundswell of commitment to deliver had grown and that it was to be hoped that this had created a genuine can-do attitude within the CEC. Ian Williamson suggested that the success would best be achieved if the Governance and Empowerment Team headed up by Andrew Field was to take control of the Action List within the CEC. Their task would be to designate responsible officers for each action and to set a short timetable for these officers to revert with a clear commitment to support (or reject) the action and provide a funded implementation timetable.

Councillor Lang requested that CBCC share updates from the CBSAG on CBCC social media. Sally Chalmers stated she was happy to do this but requested that content be shared plus a short introductory post be sent to her. Councillor Lang agreed to do this.

Role and Power of CCs

There followed a discussion about the role and power of CCs in the context of their ability to influence actions within the CEC. It was noted that the local government legislation is very different in Scotland compared with south of the border, where parish councils have real budgets and the ability to shape local services.  In Scotland, the powers are limited to the statutory right to input into planning decisions and licencing matters. But again, the point was made that the actions coming from the CSAG came from a very different context and one that had touched many councillors, not just those on the T&Env Committee. 

Given the overwhelming interest which the creation of the CBSAG had realised from members of the community—many of whom had little or no understanding of the role of community councils—the desirability of securing some ongoing involvement from at least a few of the members in the work of the community council was essential. One or two could provide continuity and add impetus to the efforts of the CBCC to secure action on the measures identified by the group.

The demographics of the membership of the CBCC were discussed with a particular concern about the absence of any young representation. Indeed, the absence of engagement with the schools serving the community was noted. John Loudon said that the issue of engaging with the community in general was a challenge even in the case of the school and with parents. People lived busy lives, and the capacity left for community involvement was generally squeezed.

The Secretary said the CBCC had enjoyed some meaningful engagement with the school in the aftermath of the implementation of the School Streets Initiative. Also, some years earlier, the CBCC had written to the Headmasters of the Primary School and the Royal High School and a number of the independent schools about the Community Council and possible involvement of pupils with an interest in social sciences, including modern studies and politics, in the work of the CC.  Nothing had come of these approaches.

Police Matters

Challenges with the use/abuse of off-road bikes continued during April and some ASBO problems from youths, with more anticipated as we move into summer. Thefts of petrol from cars had been encountered in the area, and the community was asked to be careful about where they park their cars at night—a driveway, garage or, if on the street, where it could be seen.

Cramond Surgery

Sally Chalmers said how impressed she was with the new telephony system in operation. The CBCC representatives were continuing to seek a catch-up meeting. The Surgery website, in common with other Surgery websites in the NHS Lothian area, was carrying a copy of the recent letter from the NHS Lothian LMC, which was coruscating in the terms used to describe the way in which many of the problems being faced by GP’s across the area were because of failed commitments by the Scottish Government.

Airport

John Loudon advised that growth in traffic at the airport had risen from an average of some 42 movements per day back in 1971 to a current figure of 315.  And while there was a popular misconception that the numbers of night flights were managed by the airport, the reality was that the airport can and always has been able to operate 24/7 and the overriding commercial interest of the airport was seeing more and more scheduled night flights stretching further into the night operating hours (now effectively the remaining window of time when no flights were coming or going was between 03:00 and 06:00). 

The discussion paper drawn up by Peter Scott with support from colleagues was warmly welcomed. It would help better inform the understanding of the community in their considerations of the forthcoming Airspace Change Programme and Noise Action Plans due to come out later in the year.

A key issue around which some uncertainty remained concerned the regulatory framework against which the airport could be obliged to manage the proliferation of night flights. There appeared to be a two-step process. The first covers the designation of an airport for noise limitation or mitigation purposes. The second is concerned with the application of that designation. While there was agreement that the designation issue fell to Scottish Government Ministers under the Scotland Act, the disparity arose as to who was responsible for implementation. The matter needed further clarification.

Councillor Lang advised that he felt that the aspect of the operation over which there was the greatest possibility of influencing change was that of the east-bound departure flightpath, where he felt the scope for a small variation in the degrees of the westerly flightpath would offer relief for large parts of Barnton and Cramond.  Peter Scott confirmed that this had been covered in the latest draft of the discussion paper.

Planning

Peter Scott highlighted a number of planning matters, including:

  • an approach from Millar Developments about the future use of the former Craigiehall MoD site.
  • feedback received covering suggested planting for replacement trees in the Cramond Car Park.
  • an application for an Industrial Storage Park on the former Turnhouse RAF base.

On the latter, the terms of his proposed response to the CEC were supported, with a suggested additional caveat being attached about the need to address the risks around HGV access at the southern end of the Turnhouse Road (particular concern being around the proposed new Primary School).

Campus

The Pre-Application Notification application had been made to and approved by the City of Edinburgh Council. Leaflets were arriving on doorsteps advertising the first two exhibitions being managed by PMR Leisure to provide the community with some more information on what was emerging and to respond to questions. These were being held in the Kirk Hall on the 29th and 30th of May.

John Loudon explained that the programme for development provided for the sports facilities to be completed before the build development. While the overwhelming feeling within the community was one of relief at the prospect of the site being developed after such a long period of uncertainty, there remained concerns about the robustness of the financial arrangements that would be required for the sports facilities to be sustainable while still satisfying the conditions about affordable pricing for those using the facilities.  John Loudon said there was significant work and engagement going on behind the scenes to deliver this.

Councillor Lang explained that some of the final detail would only emerge once the planning application in principle was submitted. The question was raised as to what would happen if there were significant objections to the application. The likelihood would be an appeal to Scottish Government Ministers with a delay but with every possibility that the application would receive government support.

Terminal V Concert

Concerns about the noise from the concert in April at the RHS were raised again. John Loudon described the actions he had taken the previous year, at the time of the concert and subsequently. Councillor Young had made it clear to officials supporting the considerations of the Licencing Board that a note was to be attached to all future applications from the venue to involve Board Councillors in the decision-making processes regarding the venue. The point was made that there existed technical equipment that acted as noise limiters that could and should be used. 

AOB

Councillor Lang advised that the new subsidised bus routes and service providers were due to be published in the following days.

Date of Next Meeting and AGM – final meeting before the summer break.

Thursday 20 June 2024