Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 18th October 2023 in

Cramond Kirk Millennium Hall

Present: : John Loudon (Chair), Sally Chalmers (Vice-Chair) , Ian Williamson (Secretary), Gena Wylie (Treasurer), Peter Scott, Dianne Stein, Hamish Barrie and Percy Feketey. Also in attendance Councillor Lewis Younie, Norman Work and some 8 members of the community.

Apologies: Councillor Louise Young, Councillor Kevin Lang, John Howison, Robert Bruce, James Hancock and Bert Scott

Approval of September 2023 Minutes

Confirmation of the accuracy of the draft minute of the Secretary meeting was given by Sally Chalmers and was seconded by John Loudon subject to an alteration to be made to make it clear that a grant from the City Council towards the costs of the new notice boards had in fact been made to the Community Council (albeit the project was one that had been progressed with the help of the Cramond Association).

Introductory Remarks

John Loudon welcomed those attending on what was a particularly wild night. The recent notification of the passing of Kathleen Dodds, the Chair of Cramond Heritage Trust, was noted and the Secretary was asked to convey the shared sympathies of the membership and those residents present to John Dodds and his family.

Police Report

The report covering September had been received and a copy was included in the paper handed out at the meeting. As reported, there had been very little criminality One incident concerning the illegal use of off-road bikes/quads and an act of vandalism on Cramond Island. Beyond that which was covered in the report the police were approaching the company employing a driver who had parked a van on the pedestrian crossing at Davidson’s Mains. It was noted that there was community awareness of some burglaries on Cammo Road that had taken place in September, yet there was no mention in the report. Councillor Younnie suggested that it may be that they were not in the report because they were under active investigation and that because of that, there may be a concern about including references in the report. The Secretary undertook to pursue this
with the suggestion that if the explanation was founded, then a footnote may be the way forward.


John Loudon acknowledged that some of the members had presented him with some fundamental and frequently opposing views regarding the options emerging at the recent event at the Kirk Hall hosted by Penny Lochhead of Leisure. The Community Council would need to take a view in consultation with the other local representative groups. John Loudon advised that he had yet to see the needs appraisal analysis. He had seen some of the commercial information but this had been shared with the Community Representatives on the basis that it was not to be shared more widely because of commercial sensitivities, and he was not prepared to break that confidentiality. A meeting of members was to be convened in the next few weeks and all were asked to submit their views to John in the meantime.

Update on Various Issues covered in Report

The substance of these issues can be found in the report, a copy of which is appended at the end of this minute (Appendix A).

What follows covers additional points made during the discussions around these issues at the meeting.


John Loudon said he was continuing in his efforts to secure changes to the governance arrangements, which at present provided no opportunity for community influence on route selection and change. This would demand changes to Primary Legislation and would be a slow process. The Transport and Environment Committee and the TfE will be discussing this later in the year. An undertaking was given to copy to the CC a copy of the minutes of a recent meeting that Scott Arthur (Transport Convenor) had had with the Craigleith and Blackhall CC. Councillor Younnie talked of the frustration shared by Councillors at the absence of consultation between LB councillors, and the communities.

Some more recent improvements have been noted. The absence of an integrated ticketing system was the subject of ongoing frustration and led to additional costs being levied on fare payers, who often had to take different services to access their destinations. Other technological opportunities to improve the customers journey were required. Ian Williamson and Peter Scott were meeting with some of the Jacobs team on Friday 20 October who were developing options on behalf of the Council.

A report will be brought back to the November meeting.


Peter Scott spoke to the planning issues in the report. On the pre-application proposals for the siting of a new Vodaphone mast on Queensferry Road, he advised that once again, what was proposed was contrary to the Councils own development codes.

Cramond Surgery

Ian Williamson reported on the meeting he and Gena Wylie had had with the practice manager and assistant practice manager at Cramond Surgery earlier in the week. It had been a positive meeting and both had left with reassurance that improvements were underway, which would make the surgery better equipped to respond to patient demand and expectations. The Surgery was now running again at full GP complement, two of whom are men. Four of the doctors are “returners” having completed their GP Registrar training at Cramond. They continue to have some staff shortages on the administration side due to staff churn. Some leavers cited the adequacy of public transport as their main reason for leaving. They are looking to improve access options for patients seeking non-urgent consultations, IT and telephony improvements are in prospect. We undertook to continue to lobby the Integrated Health and Social Care Team about the imperative of allowing the surgery to consolidate services for patients within its existing boundary (which includes Cammo Meadows) and to resist any thoughts of covering any of the other new coterminous developments at the Craigs and Turnhouse. (Ian went on to read from an email covering such an assurance). Sally Chalmers made a point about the Surgery’s complaints process

On a related health matter—that of dental provision—Hamish Barrie highlighted the fact that there is now no dental provision available for new NHS patients within the Community Council area. This fundamental aspect of healthcare provision was something that was agreed should be pursued through the local MSP and with our local Councillors and Councillor Younnie was asked to take action on the concerns.

Roads and Traffic Management

Peter recounted the substance of the meeting that had taken place earlier in the day with Council officials about Barnton Junction and related transport issues. The note of the meeting is appended (B) to this minute. Hamish Barrie stressed that there was an urgent need for the Councillors to take steps to address the unsatisfactory time phasing of the pedestrian traffic lights on Queensferry Road near the entrance to Barnton Park. At present, the time lag between the Green Man interventions was too long and was encouraging the pupils from the Royal High School to risk crossing when the lights were against them. That and the excessive speeds which many vehicles were travelling at made this stretch of road very dangerous.

The prospect of a further year’s delay by the City of Edinburgh Council to the implementation of the 30mph limit on the
Queensferry Road was deeply regrettable and underlined the need for measures such as this adjustment to the lights to be implemented as a matter of urgency. The risks had been further compounded by the Council’s failure to deliver adequate secondary school accommodation for the north west of Edinburgh (The Royal High School, which was built to accommodate 680 pupils and now has a roll of around 1200). John Loudon explained why the recent road works on Whitehouse Road as a result of a gas leak had taken as long as they had—and much longer than expected.

The electrical incident at Cramond Village.

It was noted that Councillor Younnie continues to pursue SP Energy Networks for a satisfactory report on the incident in Cramond Village on 4 November 2024.

Update on Boundary Review

The Council is about to consult more widely on the future arrangements for, and boundaries of, Edinburgh Community Councils. The Community Council has prepared a discussion paper illustrating 5 different locations within and co-terminus with the existing boundary of the CBCC and offering options for whether these should remain in, or be transferred out of, the CC’s area. John Loudon explained that the outcome of some of these options was of particular relevance to the neighbouring Davidson’s Mains and Silverknowes Association, which was considering applying to become a Community Council. Referring to the map and hearing the differing views of some of the members, John Loudon obtained a show of hands concerning the future of locations B and D. On B, and on an 8-to-2 vote the majority favoured the location becoming part of the DMSA. The same outcome for DMSA was supported 9 to 1 regarding C. There were no dissenting voices regarding A remaining within the CBCC and D and E were supported as becoming within the CBCC. All this is to be discussed with the Chairs of the adjacent CCs and DMSA.

Councillor’s Reports and Any Other Business

Councillor Younnie said that the current recess had offered an opportunity for catching up on ward issues. The recent SG announcement regarding a planned freeze on rates rises would make for interesting discussions when the Council moves to prepare its budget in February 2024. Gena Wylie referred to the issue of the wall within the Barnton Park development and the concerns about the extent to which some of the factors were taking money from residents but were not contributing to the costs of maintaining the wall. Councillor Work had been pursuing the issue of the overflowing bins at Cramond Car Park. He also advised that he had stepped aside from membership of the Transport and Environment Committee in favour of fresh blood. Concerns were expressed at the level of background noise that had interfered with the meeting and the question was asked as to whether a reduction on the fee for the hall should be sought. (Efforts had been made to quieten the noise from the gathering space outside the room).

Date of Next Meeting

Thursday 16 November 2023