Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 20th January 2022 via Microsoft Teams

Participating: John Loudon (Chair), John Howison (Vice-chair), Gena Wyllie (Treasurer), Peter Scott (Planning Lead), Hamish Barrie, Robert Bruce, Kit Campbell, Michael Dick, Percy Fekety, Tom Foggo, Tim Mitchell, Jean Morley and Bert Scott

In attendance: Councillor Kevin Lang

Introductory Remarks

John Loudon noted that he had attended an informal meeting to discuss the proposed Cammo Community Hub building.  Item 4 below included a summary of the key points from it.


Ian Williamson (Secretary), Councillor Norman Work

Approval of November 2022 Minutes

The minutes were approved subject to one minor amendment:

  • Item 10: Michael Dick has stood down as a member of the Council

Matters Arising

John Loudon reported that the Secretary had prepared and circulated a paper setting out his views and concerns on the City Plan 2030 process.

Police Report

Percy Fekety presented the report for December 2021 from PC David Campbell as follows:


TYTD (2021)








32.9 DOWN

HATE CRIME (North West Edinburgh)



10.3 DOWN

ASB (North West Edinburgh)



8.9 DOWN




39.9 DOWN




53.1 DOWN





Road Safety

High Visibility patrols continue to be conducted throughout the area in an effort to deter drivers committing driving offences.  There were a number of road traffic incidents throughout December and officers are continuing to monitor traffic issues and to plan road traffic initiatives target, in the Cramond & Barnton area.

Theft/ASB/Youth Disorder:

We will continue to conduct regular patrols of to deter anti-social behaviour. No reports of anti-social behaviour pertaining to youths were received throughout December.  However, there were reports of storage areas being broken into, residents are asked to check the security of sheds and garages.

Community Engagement

All community policing team officers are now back full time after some abstractions to Winter City in the city centre during December and we local officers continue to engage regularly with the community through local residents, carrying out vehicle and foot patrols

South East Scotland Regional Transport Strategy (SESTRANS)

John Howison summarised his paper on the draft regional transport strategy which had been circulated with the meeting papers.  While the 29 issues highlighted in the strategy and the resulting four objectives of it were sensible enough, the authorities responsible for delivering regional transport infrastructure are Transport Scotland and the relevant local authorities.  As a result, the strategy is unlikely to be influential.  He therefore suggested that the CC should do no more than simply note its publication.

Members had no additional comments to make and agreed that John should respond as he had suggested.

John Loudon thanked JH for his comprehensive report.

Accident at the Cramond Road North/Barnton Park

Percy Fekety reported on a recent serious road traffic accident in which an elderly couple had been knocked down and injured.  There were likely to have been three main contributory factors:

  • Possible poor driving by the motorist who knocked them down
  • The poor condition of the road surface, with a number of potholes
  • The way in which parking on Cramond Road South by visitors to Lauriston Castle was effectively restricting the road to a single lane (although the Police have dismissed this a major factor), resulting in inadequate sightlines for motorists emerging from the Castle site

Percy noted that the parking issue had reduced in recent weeks but had delayed the ambulance called to assist the casualties.  In his view the road at the Lauriston Castle exit should have double yellow lines to restrict parking, although this would obviously displace the parking to nearby roads.

Council members supported Percy’s view.  Kevin Lang also agreed and stated that he had asked for an audit of parking along Cramond Road South.  However, Gena Wylie highlighted the need to ensure adequate parking for the Forget-me-not Garden as many of its visitors would need on-site vehicle parking and were likely to travel in groups by minibus.

Planning Report

Peter Scott briefly summarised his Planning Report, which had been circulated with the meeting papers:

  • The Council had approved a wetland meadow and boardwalk at Cammo Estate LNR and a two-storey home to the rear of 12 Maybury Road, an application to which both CBCC and various neighbours had objected and which he regarded as serious overdevelopment of the site. (Additional note: the applicants have since lodged a second application to increase the size of the approved house slightly.)
  • There is an application for a two-storey house on the derelict site at the corner of Dowies Mill Lane and Brae Park Road
  • The Scottish Government have launched a draft of National Planning Framework 4 (NPF4) for consultation. CBCC will be hosting an on-line webinar focussing on the key policies likely to affect the Cramond and Barnton area, with a report back on matters raised at the next meeting.

In addition, he reported on an informal meeting between representatives of CBCC, CALA and David Wilson Homes in relation to the proposed Cammo Community Hub held on 14 January.  In essence:

  • John Loudon had summarised the constraints on the CC talking responsibilities for a lease or other arrangements for operating a community facility within the proposed building
  • Gena Wylie had explained that Cammo Meadows will not be coming within Cramond Parish; hence Cramond Kirk is unlikely to have a role to play in the proposed hub
  • Gavin Pope (CALA) had outlined the history of the proposed hub and indicated that the extent of accommodation available for community use would depend on lease arrangements and future ownership of the building. He and Nick Wright (David Wilson Homes) had indicated the intention to market the building in a way which is not prescriptive as to future use, but which would seek uses which respect the amenity of neighbouring residents.
  • Peter Scott had suggested that there may be a post-Covid market for shared local office space in addition to previous suggestions for a nursery, surgery, etc
  • The CC had offered to assist in any way it can in the marketing process.
  • Gavin Pope and Nick Wright had undertaken to keep the CC informed of progress.

Milestone Project

Peter Scott reported that the Milestone Society had approached CBCC to suggest that it might be interested in erecting plaques at two surviving historic milestones on Queensferry Road.  This proposal was also referred to in a note circulated by Ian Williamson.  Peter had passed on the details to both the Cramond Heritage Trust and the Cramond Association but neither was interested.  He therefore proposed to respond that, although an interesting project, the CC would not get involved.

Councillors’ Reports

Kevin Lang reported that he had written to the Chief Planning Officer to express his concern at the length of time the mediation process for the Brighouse site was taking.

He also reported that the City Council’s budget setting process was about to start and likely to be difficult as a result of cuts imposed by the Scottish Government.  He undertook to report back to the next CBCC meeting.

Smoke, Heat and Carbon Monoxide Alarms in domestic properties

John Loudon reminded members of the need for all houses to have linked smoke, heat and carbon monoxide alarms by 1 February and highlighted the difficulties that could arise with insurance claims in houses without them.

The Future Role of CBCC

John Loudon introduced the need to review the future role of CBCC by noting that its current work and meetings aroused very little local interest and enthusiasm, which obviously called into question the need for it to continue.  He therefore sought suggestions.

Much of the ensuing discussion related to the start time and location of meetings and public attendance While there was support for an earlier start time (e.g., 1800 or 1830) and the reintroduction of face-to-face meetings, there were also counterarguments relating to the likely availability of working members and the need to vacate the Kirk Hall by 2100 if meetings were lengthy.  Members agreed to ask Ian Willamson the average attendance when the meetings were held in the Kirk Hall as an input to a future discussion.

Tim Mitchell suggested that there might be lessons from how the Davidsons Mains and Silverknowes Association operates.  It brings together the Community Council, the Residents’ Association and the local Neighbourhood Watch Group and raises funds for local projects.  For example, the Local Neighbourhood Watch Group had, with support from the DMSA, been able to raise funds to enable the planting of ten local trees.

Kit Campbell highlighted what he saw as issues which CBCC should tackle and possible ways of doing so, based loosely around the Cramond Vision 2030 exhibition in late 2016 and feedback from the local community then.  He undertook to circulate a paper to CBCC members setting out his initial ideas so that members could consider them before the next meeting.

Peter Scott supported Kit’s initial thinking but pointed out that making progress would take some considerable time and therefore suggested the need for a “quick win”, such as could be achieved by organising a local litter pick in the spring.  Hamish Barrie said that the City Council could provide bags and tools free of charge and also arrange a skip to dispose of the collected litter.

Gena Wylie reported that she had attended a meeting of the local funding group the previous day and there was still money available for community projects in this financial year, although most grants awarded are small.

John Loudon asked members to send any other ideas to him.

Date of Next Meeting

Thursday 17 February 2022 at 7 PM to be held online using Microsoft Teams.