Incorporating Cramond, Barnton, Cammo & Quality Street (West)

Minutes of Meeting held on Thurs 21st November 2019 in

Cramond Kirk Millennium Hall

Present:  Andrew Mather (Chair), Ian Williamson (Secretary), John Loudon, Jean Morley, Bert Scott, Peter Scott, Percy Feketey, Tom Foggo and Michael Dick.  John Howison, Robert Bruce and Robert Bruce along with Councillor Lang had given their apologies.   A total of 25 people were in attendance, including Councillors Hutchison and Young. 

The Chair also took the opportunity to introduce Sally Chalmers, a Strathalmond resident who was keen to join the Community Council and offer another voice from the Cammo area. 

Supported by Peter Scott and seconded by the Chair the Committee agreed to promote her membership to the City of Edinburgh Council.  The Secretary undertook to pursue the formalities with the CEC.         

Minutes of October Meeting

The minutes of the October meeting were approved subject to some minor corrections including to clarify the number of flights per hour using the single runway and to the reference to a letter received from Joyce Carr of the Scottish Government concerning the options for Dowies Mill.    

Police Report

PC Paula Smith presented the report for October 2109.  Apart from 3 reported thefts and an update on some road safety measures running on Whitehouse Road the month had been particularly quiet.  The mention of speed checks on Whitehouse Road prompted a report from Michael Dick that on walking along Gamekeepers Road later in the evening, he had witnessed cars doing what he believed to be around 60mph. Given the height of the car suspensions and the exhaust noise, he believed them to be customised hatchbacks.  PC Smith said she would feed this back in to initiate some random checks on Gamekeepers Road.

Concern was raised about several occasions where Council refuse lorries had been seen driving southbound on Cammo Walk despite an understanding with the Council that this was inappropriate.  There was also much evidence of fly-tipping on the Walk and round onto Craigs Road leading over to Lennie Cottages.   Councillor Young said that the issue of fly-tipping was an ongoing problem for the Council and while the environmental wardens did their best they were only a few and while they would try to identify the culprits from scrutinising the contents of what was being tipped this was often not fruitful.  It was noted that the “residential pick-up” service (offered by the Council at cost) for larger household items (beds, settees etc.) was taking some 6 to 8 weeks offering some mitigation to those who chose to fly-tip.  The community was encouraged to report any witnessed incidents.  The Secretary undertook to pursue these matters with officials.

Chairman’s Report

The Chairman reported that the CC had received early notification of intent to construct a new access road to the Airport.  As part of the public consultation, an exhibition displaying the plans was to be held in the Gyle Shopping Centre on Thursday 28 November 2019 between 09:30 and 21:00hrs.

On the Cramond Glebe Road nursing home proposal the CC was challenging the Council on the way in which the developers had sought to circumvent the prospect of the planning approval expiring by carrying out the clearing of the egress path.  The argument being made by the CC was that what had been carried out did not amount to work but merely activity and that as such, the application should lapse – and have to be brought forward again.

Planning Report

Peter Scott spoke to the report which had been tabled at the meeting and which is now replicated below. 


Crosswind Proposals for Site East of Edinburgh Airport (19/05303/PAN)

Crosswind Developments Ltd has submitted a Proposal of Application Notice concerning land to the north of Gogar Roundabout, including the former Crosswind Runway at Edinburgh Airport.  The proposed development includes commercial (shops, financial/professional services, restaurants), business (storage/distribution, hotels, non-residential institutions, leisure) and residential uses. 

A manned public exhibition will be held on Tuesday 14 and Wednesday 15 January 2020 at the Gyle Shopping Centre between 2 pm and 7 pm, there will be a consultation website and information boards will be placed at Edinburgh Gateway, South Gyle and Edinburgh Park train stations.  The Community Council will discuss the proposals, insofar as known at this stage, at its January Meeting

Maybury Development (19/05051, Taylor Wimpey, 250 houses) South of Craigs Road and Proposed Closure of Cammo Walk to Vehicles

Final proposals have been submitted for the Taylor Wimpey development of 250 homes south of Craigs Road and west of Maybury Road.  This development has planning permission in principle, subject to conditions relating to layout, housing designs and traffic issues.  This application seeks to satisfy these planning conditions.

In accordance with the Local Development Plan and discussions between the City Council’s planners/road engineers and the developers, the proposals include –

  1. redesign of the Craigs Road/Maybury Road Junction 
  2. redetermination of Cammo Walk to a walking and cycling ‘green corridor’, with no vehicular access on the southern section of Cammo Walk (e.g. Cammo Estate Car Park to Craigs Road).

The proposed walking and cycling route on Cammo Walk and through the Maybury development is intended to provide a traffic-free link from the Cammo Fields development and Cammo, Strathalmond and Barnton areas to the proposed Maybury Primary School, Gateway Transport Inter-change, Gyle Shopping Centre, etc.

In discussions with Council officers, representatives of the Community Council have stated concerns over the proposed closure of Cammo Walk to vehicles, unless accompanied by a commitment to install traffic lights at the Cammo Gardens/Maybury Road junction to enhance the safety of traffic crossing from/to the southern carriageway of Maybury Road from/to the Cammo, Strathalmond and Lennymuir housing estates.  The Community Council is being asked to endorse this stance as a basis for its in its response to the current application and any future TRO to redetermine Cammo Walk as a pedestrian/cyclist only route 

Individuals’ responsesto the proposals should be sent on-line to the Council’s Planning Service by 29 November 2019.

During the discussion which followed Peter’s presentation, it was acknowledged that while the proposed new access road (mentioned earlier by the Chair) to the Airport could only help to relieve pressure on the existing access road the prospect of the Crosswinds Centre brought with it a fresh “attraction” to traffic in north Edinburgh and around the Gogar roundabout and the northern end of the City Bypass. 

On the proposed Taylor Wimpey development and the considerations regarding Cammo Walk Peter Scott agreed to prepare a response to the Council that considered the comments made during the discussion.   The key concern was that any redetermination of the use of Cammo Walk which resulted in it being closed to southbound vehicular access would in effect lead to the residents of the Cammo Estate being landlocked unless traffic lights were installed at the Cammo Gardens/Maybury Road junction.  

Tom Foggo reported on a workshop he had attended on the consultation regarding the possibility of rationalising of the hours during which the bus lanes would operate.   From an opening position that was significantly in favour of the proposed extension to the operating hours by the end of the workshop, the position had reversed with the vast majority opposed.  Lack of enforcement of the lanes was already a problem.  Alternative solutions, including more park and ride arrangements, were suggested.  A paper was to go to the Council in February covering the emerging views on the matter. 

Open Forum

The Chair invited the four tables of members and guests to reflect on what they felt were the key issued they would encourage the Community Council to pursue during the new session.  A prompt sheet had been placed on the various tables.

The feedback from the tables identified the following as issues of ongoing concern:

The planned Care Home at 18 Whitehouse Road; bus services; the Cramond Inn; Dowies Mill; the 41 and 43 bus timetables and the co-incidence of the timetable through Barnton and Davidson’s Mains; the desirability of tree planting in the area.  It was suggested that an action list should be resurrected as a means of trying to reintroduce some leverage to accountability on the Council and its officials.     In the discussion which ensued Michael Dick fed back a comment from the Council’s induction session which he had attended.  That was to flag up that it had been reported at the session that the majority of the population of Edinburgh did not realise that Community Councils existed – nor what their purpose was. It was suggested that senior officers of the Council should be asked along to address future meetings.  Councillor Young advised it was more likely that officers at operational manager level would be liable to attend. 

Councillors’ Reports

Councillor Young provided an update on her efforts – and those of other fellow Ward Councillors – on the emerging proposals re Cammo Walk and the need to address the consequences for Cammo and vehicular access/egress.  Also on the ongoing work on the Barnshot Bridge, on the discussions about bus lanes on the A90 corridor where the need for more park and ride alternatives had been stressed to offer a better option for car commuters and the need to afford real consideration to the need to look for sustainable solutions as part of the wider strategic transport review that was ongoing.  At present, there were no bus lanes in the NW locality that were currently monitored (should be seen against 35,000 fines levied last year by the Council for bus lane infringement across the City!).  A brief update on Crosswinds and a reference to the number (78) of outstanding TROs “in Process” in the NW Locality concluded Councillor Young’s update.  The current average time to process a TRO was 193 weeks.    

Councillor Hutchison began by talking about changes which had been discussed at the November Full Council meeting concerning the membership of some of the Committees of the Council and which concerned the critical political make-up of these committees. The need for change had arisen as a result of 4 Councillors having become Independents. The outcome to the discussion at the Council meeting had resulted in the administration councillors supported by the Greens having voted to abolish the principle of fairness and proportionality in the allocation of places on council committees.  While the direct impact at present is on the members of the newly formed EPIC group, this sets a very dangerous precedent and opens the door to the future exclusion of other smaller opposition parties from the decision-making process in the Council.

Continuing abuse of the school streets initiative and streets within the school zone by drivers ignoring the restrictions was to be more closely monitored by the Police for a period of time.  Councillor Hutchison had also attended a meeting where an update on the options emerging for the replacement to the Salvesen Steps had been discussed.  The presentation by SWECO had shown images of the proposed bridge around the outcrop.  One option in terms of materials carried an expected lifespan of 30 years while using stainless steel would last three times as long but was far more costly.     

Acronym’s used in these minutes
  • TRO = Traffic Regulation Order

The Chair wished all a Happy Christmas and a Healthy New Year.

Date of Next Meeting

  • Thursday 16 January 2019